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Continuing Shop.org’s “Talking With…” series, we reached out to an online retail guru (and an overall really smart guy — you’ll see what I mean below) who recently transitioned from retailer to vendor. This week, get insights from ForeSee Results Vice President Kevin Ertell, who talks about what he’s most proud of from his days at Borders, how to find a job in e-commerce (even in this economy), and why online retailers can never rest, even when times are good.
You’ve had an interesting career, first with Tower Records, then Borders, and now your current employer, ForeSee Results. What are the similarities between those roles? How about the differences?
There’s actually been some nice continuity between the three positions. I was at Tower for 20 years, working my way from store associate to buyer to store manager to some IT roles and then finally, with all my retail and technology experience, to building up TowerRecords.com when e-commerce came around.
When I finally left Tower to join Borders, I saw a lot of similarities in the businesses, for sure. Tower was primarily music and video, but also sold books. Borders was basically the opposite as far as focus, but the general business was pretty similar. Tower was private (with some public debt toward the end of my time there) and Borders was public, so I did notice more short-term pressures related to public reporting at Borders than I saw at Tower. Dress code was definitely different. At Tower, the dress code was basically “Don’t wear swimsuits.” Borders was a little more conservative than that.
ForeSee Results is a departure of sorts for me in that we’re a vendor. However, my role as Vice President of Retail Strategy calls for me to very much remain a retailer, which is great because that’s what I’ve been my entire adult (and even a little pre-adult) life. I don’t want to lose that exciting retail feeling.
Since I’ve been a ForeSee customer since 2002 at Tower and again during my time at Borders, I feel very comfortable with the ForeSee way, and I really love what the company does and stands for. In fact, during my search, I told myself that I had three objectives for my new position: (1) I had to believe in what the company does; (2) I wanted to learn something new and have plenty of great challenges; and (3) My “Miss America” clause: I wanted to be in a role where I could make the world a better place. I really believe that I’ve found all of those with ForeSee Results, and I’m really excited to be part of the team.
What were the first three things you did when starting your new job?
Well, besides filling out lots of HR paperwork, one thing I always try to do when starting a new job, whether it’s a new position with the same company or a new position at a new company, is write down my first impressions. It’s the only time I’ll have them, so I want to make a record of them because I find that over time I’ll start to hear and ingest all the reasons things are the way they are and I’ll forget how I felt about things that might not seem right to a new employee or a new customer.
I have this theory I call the Tree Stump Theory. It goes something like this…If we were to stick a big tree stump in the middle of one of our conference rooms, everyone who walked in would notice it and ask about it. Someone would give us a compelling reason why it was there, and then we would move on with our meeting. The next time we met in that room, we would notice the stump but not ask about it. Eventually, someone might stick a tablecloth on it, and we would start to adjust our seating to work around the stump. Before long, most people might not even remember why it was there to begin with. It would be hard to miss for anyone new to the room, though. So, it’s nice to reference my first impressions list from time to time to help me see things freshly again, even when they’ve become ingrained.
And by the way, there are both positive and negative tree stumps. I’ve found many times that there are great things at companies and on sites that have been undervalued over time, and it’s just as easy to lose sight of those as it is the negative things.
I also definitely like to spend time meeting everyone on the team and really listening to their perspectives and sharing some of my stories from the world of retail. Last and certainly not least, I’ve been talking to customers to get their perspectives and really try to understand their needs and expectations.
What are you most proud of from your tenure at Borders?
I’m really proud that we brought Borders.com back home to Borders. I love the site and some of its innovations, including the Magic Shelf and some of the excellent video content. I am unbelievably proud of the team of people who worked day and night to bring the site back. It was a tough, tough project that had to be done in a very short period of time. People sacrificed major portions of their lives and time with family for the cause, and I could never thank them all enough for what they did.
I’m also really proud of Borders Rewards. Before building Borders.com, I first led the team that created and launched Borders Rewards. It has since become one of the largest loyalty programs in specialty retail, and it far exceeded any of our early expectations. It was very cool to work on that effort.
As someone who recently transitioned into a new position with a new company, what advice do you have for online retail employees who may be in between jobs?
I think the first thing I would say is stay positive. I’ve been impressed with how many companies seem to be hiring e-commerce roles, even in this economy. While it may not seem like it at times, this can be a great opportunity.
I suggest communicating with everyone you know to let them know your status and what you’re looking to do. My first week after leaving Borders, I spent a LOT of time sending emails and making phone calls. I went through my contact lists, LinkedIn, Facebook, etc. and tried to find everyone I could think of that might be connected to someone who knew something about a job. I talked to former co-workers, vendors, friends, neighbors, friends of friends, people at the gym, etc.
All of that initial outreach definitely generated opportunities, and I pursued them all with vigor. Even though there were some positions that didn’t seem right, I still chased them down. I figured if nothing else, the effort would help me refine my story and my interviewing skills — and it did. I got very good at telling my story and hitting all the right points.
I also “interviewed” myself. I wrote down all of the interview questions I could think of, and then I took some time to write down my answers to each. As I heard new questions during my process, I added them to the list. I regularly studied this sheet before each interview as part of my preparation.
Of course, I also did lots of research on each company and each interviewer and created a set of questions to ask during the interview. In addition to questions, I found it was helpful to come up with some ideas for how to improve the business. I found that even if interviewers weren’t ready to take on each of my ideas, they really appreciated the thought that went into them.
You’ve been in this business, in varying roles, for a long time. For someone who is just getting started in retail or e-commerce, what advice would you give them?
I think it’s really important to listen and learn as much as possible. Read blogs (the Shop.org blog, grokdotcom.com and Six Pixels of Separation are really good ones), subscribe to newsletters like SmartBrief and Internet Retailer, and more than anything talk to customers. If you’re working for a multichannel retailer, find time to work in some physical stores. Multichannel or not, find time to take some customer service calls.
I’m also a big fan of business books, so I would recommend reading lots of them. You may not believe everything you read, but it will help expand your thinking, and I think that’s always a good thing. One I read this year that really got me thinking was “Fooled By Randomness” by Nassim Nicholas Taleb and one of my all-time favorites is “Moneyball” by Michael Lewis.
Optimists, myself included, are fond of saying that retailers who make it through this recession will be stronger for it. Do you agree with that? Can you think of anything specifically in e-commerce that will have benefited in the long-term from the current economy?
I definitely believe businesses that make it through this storm will be stronger for it. The recession has caused us all to find those elements of our businesses that are most critical to our success and relentlessly focus on those elements, not on the peripherals. Costs are more in line with sales today, and as revenues start to return the bottom line should benefit. The key will be to maintain that focus even when better revenues tempt us to take our eyes off the ball.
I think e-commerce is benefiting from the realization at many retailers that the website is about much more than the buy button. Online marketing vehicles are more efficient, for the most part, than their traditional counterparts, and retailers are starting to see that those vehicles can drive traffic to brands overall, online and offline, and the web plays a central role in both acquisition and retention of valuable customers.
You recently blogged about a quote you read, that “defending the status quo is what kills companies.” The e-commerce crowd is generally a pretty forward-thinking bunch, but how can smart retailers ensure that progress is not hindered because they’ve “never done it that way”?
Ha! Thanks for reading. I think everyone is susceptible to defending the status quo, especially when things are going well. E-commerce is generally going well, even in these times, and its future is bright. But good times are exactly when it’s important to start thinking about changing for the future. The world is constantly changing, and in e-commerce it’s changing faster than anywhere else, so we have to be even more ready to change directions. The barrier to entry at a global level in e-commerce is obviously significantly lower than in the physical world, so innovative new business models have a much better chance at success than in the past. In the blog post, I talked about how quickly Zappos went from an idea to a billion-dollar company on the strength of a new model. Amazon and iTunes are other obvious examples. As e-commerce continues to mature, we will become more susceptible to resting on our laurels, at least to some degree. We cannot rest.
You mentioned the Shop.org blog as a resource for people looking to learn more about e-commerce. Tell me about your history with Shop.org.
I’ve been involved with Shop.org since my days with TowerRecords.com. I find the organization overall to be incredibly valuable. The content at the shows is always top-notch, and I’ve learned so much by attending. Even more than learning, I’m always inspired by what I see and hear. Sometimes, I’ll see a presentation that wouldn’t seem relevant to my business, but I’ll hear something that will spark an idea. I also really love the round tables. I’ve hosted lots of them over the years, and I’ve never been disappointed in the conversations. I like that they provide a comfortable but somewhat structured point for conversation of particular topics. Of course, the absolute best conversations take place at the conference bars. I’ve had some doozies in there!
I also really appreciate Shop.org’s advocacy for the industry. I’ve been lucky enough to be involved with the Policy Advisory Group, and I’ve been impressed with how the Shop.org team is working on behalf of its members to deal with some thorny issues in Congress.
What’s the best part about working in retail?
To me, bar none, the best part about working in retail is finding ways to help customers. I always loved making customers happy when I was working in stores, and I’ve never lost that feeling. I think retail is really a service industry, and when we do things that truly delight customers we actually make the world a better place.
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One Comment
I worked with Kevin a LONG time ago in Virginia at Tower Records. I’m so very happy to read this article and know that he’s doing well and did not let Tower’s failure to evolve drag him down.
Take care Kevin!